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How to Write a Ticket That Gets a Real Answer

The difference between a resolved issue and a week-long back-and-forth often comes down to the first message you send. Support agents handle dozens of tickets daily, and vague requests get routed to template queues automatically. A well-structured initial ticket cuts through that filter and lands with someone who can act.

Start with your account identifier—username or registered email—plus the exact time and date of the incident. If your PayID deposit has not appeared, include the transaction reference number from your banking app. This is usually a 6-12 digit string that lets the payments team trace the transfer without asking for it later. State the amount in AUD, the PayID identifier you sent to (email or phone number), and whether the funds left your bank account.

Next, describe what you expected versus what happened. "Deposit of A$200 via PayID at 14:30 on 3 March 2026 not credited after 45 minutes" beats "my money is gone" by every measurable standard. Attach a screenshot of your bank's confirmation screen, but redact any sensitive details beyond the reference number and amount. Most operators accept PNG or JPEG; PDFs sometimes get flagged by security scanners and delay response.

Finally, state your desired outcome clearly. "Please credit the deposit to my casino balance or confirm the reversal timeline" gives the agent a concrete action. If you are writing about a bonus that did not trigger, quote the exact promotion name and the terms section you believe applies. The table above lists the current windows for first responses across operators, but a complete ticket often gets answered faster than the listed average because it skips the clarification round.

Channels matter here too. Live chat suits urgent deposit issues where you need confirmation within minutes. Email works better for complex verification disputes where you need to attach multiple documents. Some operators route PayID-specific queries to a dedicated payments queue, so mentioning the method in your subject line or opening sentence helps with triage. The phrase PayID online casinos operators typically maintain separate teams for payment and general account issues, and getting routed correctly saves hours.

What to Include in Every PayID Support Ticket

• Account username and registered email address
• Exact date, time, and timezone of the transaction
• PayID reference number from your banking confirmation
• Amount in AUD and the identifier you paid to
• Screenshot of bank confirmation with sensitive details redacted
• Expected outcome stated in one clear sentence
• Relevant promotion name or terms reference if applicable

Common First-Ticket Mistakes That Trigger Delays

• Vague subject lines like "help" or "urgent" with no detail
• Missing transaction references requiring agent to request them
• Multiple unrelated issues in one ticket, causing split routing
• Emotional language that obscures factual details
• Attaching screenshots with full card numbers or passwords visible
• Requesting phone callbacks when the operator offers chat or email only

How Operators Prioritise Incoming Tickets

Most Australian-facing platforms use a three-tier system. Tier 1 handles password resets, bonus eligibility checks, and basic account queries. These agents work from scripted responses and typically resolve 60-70% of volume without escalation. Tier 2 covers payment disputes, verification holds, and technical issues with game loading or balance display. Tier 3 involves fraud reviews, large withdrawal holds above A$10,000, and regulatory reporting.

Your goal is to write a ticket that Tier 1 cannot answer from their script. That forces handoff to Tier 2, where agents have direct access to payment processors and can view raw transaction logs. A deposit missing for more than two hours with a valid reference number usually qualifies automatically. Bonus disputes require more precision: you need to show that your deposit met every stated condition, including minimum amount, eligible payment method, and timing relative to account creation.

Escalation Path When the First Reply Is a Template

Template responses serve a purpose—they resolve common questions quickly—but they fail when your issue sits outside standard parameters. Recognising a template is straightforward: it does not address your specific details, it suggests solutions you already tried, or it quotes generic terms without applying them to your case. The real skill is knowing what to do next.

Step one is replying within the same ticket thread with a direct challenge. Quote the template sentence that missed your point, restate the specific fact it ignored, and ask for escalation to a senior agent or payments specialist. Do not open a new ticket; that resets your position in the queue and may route to a different agent who repeats the same script. Keep the thread intact so the next reader sees the full context.

If the second reply is also templated, escalate through alternative channels. Operators with live chat often have a "speak to a manager" option that connects to a team lead. Email-only platforms sometimes list a complaints or escalations address in their terms, separate from general support. Social media channels like X or Facebook can work for public visibility, though this is a last resort rather than a first move. The risk is that public complaints get handled by marketing teams who prioritise reputation over technical accuracy.

For payment issues specifically, request a manual trace through the New Payments Platform. PayID transfers clear through NPP infrastructure, and operators can initiate a trace request to their banking partner. This takes 1-3 business days and costs nothing at most Australian banks. If the operator refuses to request a trace, ask why in writing and keep that response. It becomes relevant if you later dispute through your bank or a regulator.

The phrase PayID online casinos real money players should note that escalation timelines vary significantly by operator size. Larger platforms like KingBilly or SkyCrown have dedicated escalation managers and published complaints procedures. Smaller or newer brands may route everything through a single team, making escalation harder. The table above lists which operators publish specific escalation contacts versus those that handle everything through generic support.

When to Escalate to External Bodies

• After two internal escalation attempts with no substantive response
• When funds are missing for more than 5 business days with no trace initiated
• If the operator refuses to acknowledge a verified PayID deposit
• When bonus terms are applied inconsistently compared to published rules
• If verification demands exceed standard KYC without regulatory justification

Documenting Your Escalation Trail

Every message, timestamp, and agent name matters. Screenshot chat sessions before closing the window—some platforms delete chat history after 24 hours. Save email headers with full routing information, not just body text. If you speak to a manager by phone, note the date, time, and any reference number they provide. This documentation becomes your evidence if you need to involve a third party.

External escalation options for Australian players include the operator's licensing regulator (typically Curacao eGaming or Malta Gaming Authority for offshore sites), independent dispute resolution services like eCOGRA or ThePOGG, and your own bank's dispute process for unauthorised or failed transactions. Each has different thresholds and timelines. Regulators generally respond in 4-12 weeks. Dispute resolution services aim for 2-4 weeks. Bank disputes under Australia's e-payments code must be acknowledged within 5 business days.

Certified Escalation Standards at Major Operators

Some operators publish escalation commitments that go beyond industry norm. These are not guarantees but indicate organisational maturity. Look for: maximum hours to first human response (not bot), named escalation contact in terms, published complaints officer with direct email, and membership in an independent dispute resolution scheme. The absence of these features does not mean an operator is untrustworthy, but their presence correlates with faster resolution of edge cases. Getting the money back out is a subject of its own — our high payout online casinos accepting PayID and crypto comparison covers withdrawal speed and limits.

What the Support Setup Says About the Operator

The structure of a casino's support system reveals more than its marketing claims. Operators who invest in 24/7 live chat with native English speakers for the Australian market are signalling long-term commitment. Those who route all queries to email with 48-hour turnaround may be cost-optimising at player expense. Neither is automatically bad, but the fit depends on what you need.

Multi-channel support—live chat, email, and sometimes phone or callback—is now standard at the larger Australian-facing brands. The critical detail is not channel count but coverage hours. A platform offering chat 16 hours daily covers Australian evening peak times (18:00-23:00 AEST) but leaves morning deposit issues waiting. True 24/7 coverage matters most for PayID problems because NPP transfers process outside standard business hours, and a deposit made at 02:00 on Saturday needs same-day resolution if you want to play that weekend. For more context, see our instant PayID withdrawal casino Australia real money comparison.

Language capability is another differentiator. Some operators advertise "English support" but staff primarily with non-native speakers working from generic scripts. This creates friction when describing complex PayID issues involving BSB errors, intermediary bank holds, or NPP timeout codes. Native or fluent Australian English speakers catch nuances like "the money left my CommBank app but never hit the casino" without requiring repetition.

Training depth shows in how agents handle PayID-specific queries. A well-trained agent knows that PayID uses the New Payments Platform, understands that "instant" means typically under 60 seconds but can stretch to several minutes during NPP maintenance windows, and recognises that some banks (notably smaller credit unions) batch PayID transfers rather than processing them individually. An untrained agent treats every delayed deposit as a standard missing payment and requests 3-5 business days for investigation. The cost of play is broken down in our PayPal casino Australia comparison.

The new online casinos with PayID Australia market entrants often launch with lean support teams and expand based on volume. This creates a predictable pattern: fast initial responses during soft launch, then deteriorating service as player acquisition outpaces staffing. Established operators like Joe Fortune or Fair Go have had years to refine their queues. Newer names may offer innovative features but carry higher support risk during growth phases.

Support Infrastructure Indicators to Evaluate

• Live chat availability: true 24/7 or timezone-limited windows
• Agent language capability: native Australian English or second-language support
• Payment specialist team: dedicated PayID/NPP expertise or generalist agents
• Queue transparency: estimated wait time displayed or hidden
• History retention: can agents see your past tickets or do you restart each time
• Self-service tools: knowledge base depth and search functionality

Red Flags in Support Architecture

Certain patterns predict poor outcomes before you ever need help. Be cautious of operators whose live chat consistently routes to "leave a message" during advertised hours. This suggests understaffing or technical instability. Similarly, platforms that close tickets automatically after 72 hours of player inactivity often use this to suppress complaint metrics. Another warning sign is agents who cannot access your full account history or payment logs—these are Tier 1-only operations with no escalation pathway.

The most concerning setup is "support via forum or social media only." This removes accountability, creates public pressure as the primary leverage, and makes documentation harder. Every operator on this page offers at least email support, but the quality gap between email-only and multi-channel with specialists is substantial for PayID issues. The full cost of playing for real money is set out in our PayID online casinos real money comparison.

How Operator Size Affects Support Quality

Large operators process more tickets, which means more data to train responses but also longer queues. Small operators offer personal attention but may lack the banking relationships to resolve complex NPP traces quickly. Mid-sized platforms often hit a sweet spot: enough volume to justify dedicated payment teams, small enough that senior agents remember recurring issues.

Wintino and WinSpirit fall into this mid-sized category based on their Australian market focus. Golisimo and Alawin are newer entries still building support depth. KingBilly, SkyCrown, and King Johnnie operate at larger scale with more formalised processes. Ricky Casino, Joe Fortune, and Fair Go have the longest Australian track records, which shows in their published complaints procedures and escalation contacts. For what is available before funding an account, see our PayID casinos online Australia no deposit bonus rundown.

Channels, Hours and Realistic First-Response Times per Operator

Understanding when and how you can reach each operator prevents frustration before it starts. The table above lists the current windows, but this section explains what those numbers mean in practice and how they vary by issue type.

Live chat first-response times measure from connection to first agent message, not to resolution. A 30-second connection with a bot that cannot solve your problem is worse than a 5-minute wait for a human who can. Most Australian-facing operators now use chatbots for initial triage—password resets, bonus code entry, basic account status. These resolve quickly but hand off poorly to payment issues. When you need PayID help, ask for a human immediately rather than cycling through bot suggestions.

Email response times are more variable because they depend on queue depth and issue complexity. A simple "what is my withdrawal status" query gets answered faster than a disputed PayID deposit requiring manual trace. Weekend and holiday delays are common even at 24/7 operations because payment processing teams often work weekday business hours only. An email sent Friday evening about a missing deposit may not reach a payments specialist until Monday morning. What happens when something goes wrong is covered in our crypto casino comparison.

Phone support is rare among offshore operators serving Australia, but some offer callback requests. These work well for complex verification discussions where back-and-forth messaging is inefficient. Callback availability typically mirrors business hours in the operator's licensing jurisdiction—often European time, which means early morning or late evening for Australian players.

The best online casino support experiences combine fast initial response with competent resolution. A platform answering chat in 2 minutes but requiring 3 days to trace a PayID deposit is not truly fast. Conversely, an operator taking 10 minutes to connect but resolving the issue in one conversation delivers better actual service. Evaluate both numbers, not just the headline response time.

Live Chat: What "24/7" Actually Means

• True 24/7: human agents available every hour, every day, including Australian public holidays
• 24/7 with caveats: human agents overnight, but payment specialists only daytime hours
• 24/7 chatbot: automated responses only, human handoff during limited windows
• Extended hours: coverage 16-20 hours daily, typically missing early morning AEST
• Business hours only: chat available 9-5 in operator's local timezone

Email Queue Dynamics by Issue Type

Operator-Specific Channel Notes

Wintino and WinSpirit both offer live chat with Australian evening coverage but rely on email for complex payment traces. Golisimo's newer infrastructure includes chat callback requests, though availability is limited. KingBilly and SkyCrown have the most extensive published support hours, with payment specialists on roster during Australian peak times. King Johnnie emphasises phone callback for VIP tiers. Joe Fortune and Fair Go, as longer-established brands, have refined email workflows with automated status updates at each processing stage. Ricky Casino sits mid-range with competent chat but less transparent queue management. Offers that need no deposit at all are compared in our no deposit bonus codes Australia rundown.

The mobile casino online experience increasingly determines how players contact support. Most Australian players now access casinos primarily via smartphone, and operators have optimised chat interfaces for mobile browsers. However, document upload for verification remains smoother on desktop for many platforms. If you anticipate needing to send ID documents or bank statements, plan to use email or switch to desktop rather than struggling with mobile file attachment.

The Issues Players Actually Raise, and Who Resolves Them Fastest

PayID generates a specific pattern of support tickets distinct from other payment methods. Understanding these patterns helps you anticipate problems and choose operators with proven resolution capability.

The most frequent issue is deposits credited late or not at all. NPP infrastructure is robust but not infallible; maintenance windows, bank-side fraud holds, and identifier mismatches all cause delays. The operator cannot control NPP maintenance schedules, but their response speed depends on whether they have direct access to NPP transaction logs or must request them through a banking partner. Direct access allows same-day resolution; partner-mediated access typically takes 1-3 business days.

Identifier mismatches occur when a player sends to an old or incorrect PayID. Casinos rotate PayID identifiers for security, and depositing to a previous identifier creates a manual reconciliation task. Prevention is simple: always copy the current identifier from the cashier page, never use saved details from a previous deposit. If you do make this error, resolution speed depends on the operator's willingness to manually match payments, which varies significantly. What a fixed deposit buys at each operator is compared in the online baccarat Australia page.

Withdrawal issues are less common with PayID than deposits because fewer operators support PayID for cashouts. Where available, PayID withdrawals sometimes fail because the player's registered PayID (their email or phone) is not linked to the bank account they expect. This is a player-side configuration issue but manifests as an operator "rejection." The fix is verifying your PayID linkage in your banking app before requesting withdrawal.

Bonus non-crediting after PayID deposit is the third major category. This usually stems from terms interpretation: minimum deposit thresholds, eligible payment methods, or timing windows. Some operators exclude PayID from certain promotions if the bonus terms specify "selected payment methods only." Others require the deposit to be your first ever, creating confusion if you previously deposited via another method. The fastest resolution comes from operators whose bonus terms explicitly list PayID eligibility per promotion.

The best payout online casino for PayID reliability is not necessarily the one with the fastest advertised withdrawal speed, but the one with the cleanest payment infrastructure. Operators who process fewer manual interventions have fewer errors. This tends to correlate with longer-established platforms that have automated their PayID workflows. Newer operators may offer competitive speeds but handle more edge cases manually, introducing variability.

Issue Resolution Speed by Operator Category

Operator-Specific Resolution Patterns

Based on published procedures and player-reported patterns (editorial judgement, not derived from testing), certain operators show consistent strengths. KingBilly and SkyCrown resolve standard PayID deposit issues within their published 24-hour window more reliably than most. Joe Fortune and Fair Go handle verification-related holds with established workflows that reduce back-and-forth. Ricky Casino and King Johnnie perform well on bonus crediting disputes due to explicit terms. Wintino and WinSpirit are competent but show more variability as they scale. Golisimo and Alawin, as newer entries, have less track record to evaluate and may route more issues to senior agents by default. Response times and escalation routes are measured in the sites that accept Neosurf guide.

When Speed Matters Most

• Weekend deposits for time-limited promotions: missing the window costs the bonus
• Tournament entries with registration deadlines: funds must clear before cutoff
• Large withdrawals for planned purchases: delays affect real-world financial planning
• Account security concerns: suspected unauthorised access needs immediate lockdown
• Self-exclusion requests: regulatory requirement for immediate processing

Verification Handled as a Support Process, with Timings

Know Your Customer (KYC) is often treated as a compliance checkpoint, but for players it functions as a support interaction with specific pain points and timelines. Understanding verification as a process helps you navigate it efficiently and choose operators whose workflows match your documentation situation.

The standard Australian-facing verification requires three document categories: identity (passport, driver's licence, or national ID card), address proof (utility bill, bank statement, or government correspondence dated within 90 days), and payment verification (screenshot of PayID-linked bank account or card). Some operators add source-of-funds requests for deposits above A$5,000 cumulative or single withdrawals above A$10,000. These are regulatory triggers, not arbitrary demands, though the threshold varies by licensing jurisdiction. Catalogue depth is compared title by title in the live casino page.

Timing depends heavily on submission quality. A clear, well-lit photo of your licence taken against a plain background gets approved in hours. A blurry scan with glare, cropped edges, or expired document gets rejected and restarts the queue. Address proofs cause the most delays because players submit mobile phone bills or insurance documents that some operators do not accept. Check the accepted document list before submitting; it saves days.

PayID-specific verification sometimes requires proof that your PayID identifier (email or phone) matches your registered casino account. This is automatic if you use the same email for both, but phone-number PayID users may need to submit a screenshot showing their number linked in their banking app. The privacy concern here is legitimate—redact your account balance and transaction history, showing only the PayID linkage and your name. Recently launched sites are assessed separately in the new PayID pokies Australia guide.

The real money casino app Australia verification experience varies by platform. Some operators allow document upload directly through their mobile interface; others redirect to email or web upload. The latter creates friction but often processes faster because desktop uploads tend to be higher resolution. If you are preparing for verification, gather documents on desktop and submit via whichever channel the operator specifies for fastest processing.

Standard Verification Timeline by Stage

• Initial document submission: immediate (automated confirmation)
• First review by verification team: 4-24 hours during business days
• Request for additional documents: adds 24-48 hours per round
• Final approval and account status update: 1-4 hours after complete review
• Total for clean submission: 1-2 business days
• Total with one rejection/revision: 3-5 business days
• Total with source-of-funds request: 5-10 business days

Pre-Submission Checklist for Faster Approval

• Document expiry: minimum 3 months remaining validity
• Photo quality: all corners visible, no glare, no digital alterations
• Address match: exactly matches casino registration, including unit numbers
• Name consistency: identical across ID, bank records, and casino account
• PayID linkage: screenshot shows your identifier connected to your name
• Source-of-funds readiness: employment letter, payslip, or sale contract if large deposits expected

Verification as an Ongoing Process

Smart players treat verification as preparatory, not reactive. Submitting documents immediately after registration—before making any deposit—means your first withdrawal processes without delay. This is especially valuable for PayID users because the method's speed advantage is wasted if a pending verification hold blocks your cashout for days. Several operators now offer "fast-track verification" with priority review for pre-submitted documents, though this is rarely advertised prominently.

The is PayID safe for online casinos question extends to verification security. Reputable operators store documents encrypted with access logging, but practices vary. Look for operators who specify their document retention period and deletion policy. Standard is 5 years post-account closure for regulatory compliance, but some retain longer. You have the right to request deletion after this period, though enforcement depends on jurisdiction.

When Verification Becomes a Dispute

Occasionally, verification requests escalate beyond standard documentation. Operators may ask for notarised copies, video calls, or additional references. These are permitted under most licensing frameworks but should be proportionate to your activity level. A player depositing A$50 weekly who faces a notarisation request has grounds for complaint. A player depositing A$5,000 weekly with irregular patterns faces a higher threshold, and extensive verification is expected. How the money gets in is covered separately in our PayID deposit casino Australia rundown.

If you believe a verification request is excessive, escalate through the operator's complaints procedure before involving external bodies. Document each request and your response. Regulators generally side with operators on verification scope unless the demands are clearly disproportionate or discriminatory. The no verification casino options marketed to some jurisdictions do not legally serve Online poker australian players; any operator accepting you without verification is operating outside standard regulatory frameworks.

How to Use PayID Support Features Effectively

Beyond reactive problem-solving, several PayID-specific features help prevent issues. Understanding these before you need them saves support interactions entirely.

PayID naming in your banking app is the first defence. Use a clear, unique identifier for casino transactions—perhaps a dedicated email address—so you can distinguish casino deposits from other payments in your history. This simplifies any future trace request. Some banks allow multiple PayID identifiers per account; others limit you to one. Check your bank's settings before your first casino deposit.

Deposit confirmation screenshots are your second tool. Most banking apps show a confirmation screen with reference number, amount, timestamp, and recipient identifier. Screenshot this immediately; some apps clear the confirmation after you navigate away. The reference number is your primary recovery tool if a deposit goes missing, and without it, even the most helpful operator faces delays. A separate page, the best online casinos for australians who use PayID and Neosurf page, goes into this in detail.

Understanding NPP maintenance windows prevents unnecessary panic. The New Payments Platform schedules maintenance, typically early Sunday mornings AEST, during which transfers may queue rather than process instantly. Depositing during these windows creates apparent delays that resolve automatically once maintenance completes. Check NPP status pages or your bank's service notifications before contacting support about a delayed Sunday deposit.

The how to use PayID in online casinos knowledge base at most operators covers these basics, but the depth varies. Well-maintained knowledge bases reduce support volume and indicate operational maturity. Look for: current PayID identifier displayed with copy button, clear minimum and maximum deposit limits, explanation of NPP processing versus operator crediting, and troubleshooting steps for common issues. Operators hiding this information behind support contact are either understaffed or intentionally opaque.

Proactive Monitoring Tools

• Bank app transaction alerts: enable push notifications for all outgoing transfers
• NPP status page: bookmark for maintenance window awareness
• Casino cashier history: screenshot your intended deposit details before confirming
• Support knowledge base: review before first deposit to understand specific workflow
• Community forums: operator-specific tips from experienced players (treat as anecdotal, not verified)

When Self-Service Fails

Even prepared players hit edge cases. A deposit showing as completed in your bank but pending in the casino for hours; a PayID identifier that worked yesterday returning "not found" today; a bonus credited but with incorrect wagering requirements applied. These require human intervention. The key is recognising when you have exhausted self-service options and escalating efficiently rather than repeatedly attempting the same failed action. There is more on this in our online pokies Australia PayID rundown.

Responsible Gambling and Support Interaction

Support channels serve responsible gambling functions beyond payment help. Every operator listed on this page provides self-exclusion, deposit limits, and cool-off tools, but accessing them sometimes requires navigating support rather than self-service interfaces.

Self-exclusion is the most time-critical responsible gambling interaction. Regulatory frameworks generally require immediate effect once requested, but implementation varies by operator. Some process self-exclusion through automated account settings; others require email or chat confirmation with a human agent. The latter creates risk if queue times are long. If you need immediate self-exclusion and cannot access it instantly, consider self-excluding through your banking app (transaction blocking) as an interim measure while waiting for casino confirmation. This is picked up again in PayID pokies.

Deposit limits are more flexible but similarly important. Most platforms allow daily, weekly, and monthly limits with varying lock-in periods. Increasing a limit typically requires a cooling-off period (24 hours to 7 days) to prevent impulsive escalation. Decreasing takes effect immediately. Support involvement is usually only needed if you hit technical issues setting limits or need to discuss a past increase request.

The PayID casinos online Online poker australia no deposit bonus promotions sometimes attract players who are not yet ready to commit financially. This is legitimate exploration, but support should never be used to circumvent deposit limits or self-exclusion. Operators monitor for this pattern, and attempts to do so may result in account closure rather than assistance. The same operators are compared from a different angle in the thepokies page.

Responsible Gambling Tools by Access Method

• Self-service account settings: deposit limits, session timers, reality checks
• Email or chat required: self-exclusion, permanent account closure, source-of-funds review
• External resources: GambleAware NSW, Gambler's Help, National Gambling Helpline

Support Agent Training in Responsible Gambling

Quality operators train all support agents in responsible gambling recognition and response. This includes knowing when to offer limit-setting assistance, how to process self-exclusion requests without unnecessary delay, and when to escalate to specialist responsible gambling teams. Agents should never discourage limit-setting or suggest "taking a break" as an alternative to formal self-exclusion when you have requested the latter. If you encounter resistance to responsible gambling requests, escalate immediately and document the interaction.

Final Recommendations for PayID Support Navigation

Your choice of operator should reflect your support needs as much as your game preferences. Frequent players making regular PayID deposits benefit from platforms with 24/7 payment specialists and direct NPP access. Occasional recreational players may find email-only support adequate if they plan deposits during business hours. High-stakes players need escalation pathways and published complaints procedures above all else. The comparison that ranks every site is on the PayID online casinos home page.

The PayID pokies no deposit bonus seekers should verify bonus terms before depositing, as support cannot override published exclusions. If PayID is excluded from a specific promotion, no amount of escalation will change that; the time to check is before you transfer funds.

Across all operators on this page, the fundamentals remain consistent: keep transaction references, write specific tickets, escalate when templates fail, and verify early. PayID's speed advantage is real, but it depends on operator infrastructure matching NPP efficiency. Choose platforms where that match is evident in their support setup, not just their marketing.